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Mixed Martial Arts--- In order to understand how far the sport of mixed martial arts has come in terms of mainstream acceptance, all one has to do is take a look back at where MMA was just a year or two ago. At the time that I conducted an interview with UFC president Dana White in April 2003, getting the UFC on any form of television other than pay-per-view was just a dream that had yet to be realized in the United States.

Everything that was said in this interview in April 2003 could have also applied a year later in April 2004, as the situation was much the same. The only difference between April 2003 and April 2004 was that MMA had experienced yet another year without a single death or serious injury, something that boxing or even pro wrestling could never claim in any given year.

In mid-2004, the UFC reached a deal with Spike TV. The deal wasn't for the original fight show that the UFC had hoped for, but it was for the next best thing: A reality show featuring up-and-coming mixed martial artists as they tried to break into the sport. The reality show would be called The Ultimate Fighter and was filmed in September, October, and November of 2004. The series started airing on Spike TV in January 17, 2005, and nothing has been the same since that day.

The Ultimate Fighter was the break-out ratings hit of the season on cable television, and one of the top shows on all of cable television in the highly coveted, advertiser-friendly demographic of 18-to-34 year old males. The first live MMA fight on free television took place in the form of The Ultimate Fighter's season finale on April 9, and the ratings surpassed Spike TV's expectations in the key demographics.

Spike TV's overwhelming happiness with the ratings performance of the UFC was one of many factors that led to Spike TV dropping WWE programming from its schedule. The network announced that it would not be renewing its contract with WWE when it expires in September, in part because the success of the UFC meant that Spike TV was no longer dependent on WWE for highly-rated original programming.

Several weeks ago, the news came that Spike TV was not only renewing The Ultimate Fighter for at least two more seasons, but the network also ordered 26 episodes of a show featuring pre-taped UFC fights. Most notably of all, the network ordered six live fight specials that will air between now and the end of 2006 on Spike TV. (My full story on the UFC's huge new TV deal with Spike TV can be found here.)

So, that's where MMA is now, but it was a vastly different story just a short time ago. As UFC president Dana White said in the following interview regarding TV negotiations in April 2003, "It gets all the way to the top, everybody wants to do it, and then the top guy shoots it down because nobody has the balls to take it right now."

Interview with UFC President Dana White
Originally Published in April 2003 on MMAWeekly.com

Ivan Trembow: What obstacles have you faced in trying to get a cable TV deal for the UFC?

Dana White: Basically, what's happening is that we've gone out and talked to a lot of different TV companies. We make it all the way up to the top... you know, the ground-level people want it, but once it gets to the top, they shoot it down. They're just afraid of it. Basically, they're just afraid of the product right now. Perception is still out there very strong even though we're back on pay-per-view, we've changed it, and we're sanctioned. Perception is still what's killing us.

Ivan: I would imagine the first thing a network would say is that they would never allow a live fight in a million years. They would say, "Somebody's going to die out there" even though no one ever has.

Dana: Exactly. If we do eventually come to a deal, which I know we will, we're still in talks with a lot of people right now... it's going to be taped fights. Then they can hand-pick through them, and they've even talked about editing. We were going to sell the Tito Ortiz-Ken Shamrock fight to a large network and they wanted to do it, but when the fight was over, they said the fight was too brutal.

Ivan: But you would have fights on TV that are specifically taped for TV, kind of like with UFC 37.5?

Dana: What we would do is, we'd do a smaller show, like here in Vegas, and we'd have 20 fights, tape them all, and then cut them up and turn them into like three or four different TV shows.

Ivan: Have there been some networks that want partial ownership, like maybe a ten percent stake in the company?

Dana: Yeah, that could be a possibility, too.

Ivan: Is that something Zuffa would be willing to do for a TV deal?

Dana: We'd be willing to do anything. We'd listen to anything that anybody had to say. If it makes business sense for us, then yeah, we'd do that.

Ivan: In the case of HBO or Showtime, do you think they're so embedded with boxing that they wouldn't want to ruffle the feathers of any boxing people who might perceive the UFC to be a threat in the long term? Have you run into anything like that with those networks, or even ESPN since they also have ties to boxing?

Dana: I don't know if that's really true because we've definitely butted heads with some boxing guys, but Lorenzo and I both come from boxing, so we have a lot of relationships there. I really don't think that it's the boxing powers trying to squash us. We've had a couple of run-ins and a couple of headbutts, but nothing real big.

Ivan: Is it even looked at as a possibility to have a syndicated deal with a regional group like The Sunshine Network out of Florida, or are you strictly looking for just a national cable deal? Would you be willing to do a syndicated deal?

Dana: It would depend on the deal. I don't know what I would do unless we got in a room and started talking. But just off the top of my head, I can say that we're out there every day working to get a TV show.

Ivan: Has Zuffa's relationship with ESPN been damaged by the whole "Outside the Lines" situation, where they filmed footage at ten UFC shows and aired almost none of it, and changed what they were going to air at the last minute? Has that put any kind of a damper on negotiations?

Dana: Not really, because we had been talking with ESPN, but at the end of the day, it still all depends on the deal. We were never really that far with ESPN. We were never to the point where we had a deal with them.

Ivan: Are you pretty much just negotiating with Fox Sports Network, or are there other cable networks involved?

Dana: There's a lot of other cable networks involved.

Ivan: Are you able to comment on which networks you have negotiated with, or are negotiating with, or can you not really name specific networks for legal reasons?

Dana: Specifically, I don't want to do that. Just because of the business, I don't want to specifically say who I'm talking to and who is interested.

Ivan: With networks that are afraid of the product as you put it, what can you do to show them that there's really nothing to be afraid of?

Dana: You just go out there and let them know what the sport is all about now that it's changed and it's sanctioned. You know, show them some fights and show them some stuff. There's not much else you can do. Believe me, everything you can possibly do, we've done it and then some. It gets all the way to the top, everybody wants to do it, and then the top guy shoots it down because nobody has the balls to take it right now.

Ivan: What are some of the financial difficulties, like having to pay to get on the air or selling advertising...

Dana: That's the other thing. At the end of the day, they don't think anyone is going to want to attach themselves to it and buy advertising.

Ivan: Wouldn't you probably get a lot of the same advertisers that boxing gets on TV, or do the networks think that those companies wouldn't want to advertise with you?

Dana: I really don't understand because we did the ratings that we did on Fox Sports Net for the two specials, and it more than doubled what they normally get for boxing in that time slot. You can't tell me that the people who are advertising during the boxing slots wouldn't want to advertise during MMA events, when they're getting more eyeballs watching it than they would with the boxing.

Ivan: Is the amount of money that the networks would want you to pay every week to be on TV a high enough amount that it would potentially be financially crippling for the UFC?

Dana: I would never pay to be on TV. That I won't do.

Ivan: Well, I know that at least with any pro wrestling company, which the networks would probably approach in much the same way they would approach MMA, the networks are saying the exact opposite. They won't pay for rights fees, and they want any new company coming in to pay them a fee every week for the air time. Have there been networks that have been willing to bend on that issue, and not insist on the UFC paying them to get on the air?

Dana: Yeah, definitely. That has definitely happened.

Ivan: That's great to hear because that's a major hurdle to clear. But going back to something you mentioned earlier... I think the assumption has been that if the UFC gets a TV deal, it would be something like the show you have in Britain right now, or the two specials on Fox Sports Net last year. It would be more about developing personalities and showing fights that have already happened, with no fights taped specifically for the purpose of airing on cable TV...

Dana: Those fights on the specials weren't for the hardcore fans, they were to bring in new viewers. But when you talk about people having already seen those fights, you're talking about like 40,000 people, and the viewership we did on those specials was over a million people.

Ivan: But you're saying this would be different, and that you would tape fights specifically for the purpose of airing them on free TV?

Dana: Yeah. I mean, it would do us no good to just keep doing the British show and air it in the US. Plus, we would run out of content eventually. The reason we want to do it the way I'm talking about with smaller-type shows is so that we could build up guys into pay-per-view stars.

Ivan: So you would have guys getting built up on the TV show and moving up to the pay-per-views, and maybe guys who are on losing streaks on the pay-per-views would move down to the TV show. So it could be kind of like a developmental system.

Dana: Absolutely, just like they did with boxing. What we would do is that I would have guys who are already my pay-per-view guys like, say, Chuck Liddell and Tim Sylvia and a bunch of other guys. Then we would take one of the younger pay-per-view guys like Robbie Lawler, and he would be the main event on a TV show... and the rest would all be up-and-coming guys, where we're out shopping for new talent to build.

Ivan: Would you have the TV tapings like once a month?

Dana: That would just depend on how the TV deal was structured, like how many fights we had to show, how often the show was on, and things like that.

Ivan: Would you say that you're farther away from a TV deal than you were a few months ago, or closer to a deal, or has there not really been any change?

Dana: No, no, no, we're definitely closer. I just thought this was going to be a much quicker process than it has been. We're working on it every day. All we do day-to-day is work on getting on free TV. It's not like we're just not into it and don't care about it. That's all we do.

Ivan: Alright, I've got one final question that is completely unrelated, but I have to ask you this. What do you think about Pride's recent statement that they want the US to be their primary market in the future?

Dana: I think it's insane. I know that if I were drawing 50,000 or 60,000 fans to stadiums in America, I certainly wouldn't go to Japan and hope to sell 10,000 seats. That would be the last thing I would want to do.

Labels: Mixed Martial Arts (MMA), UFC News, Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC)

posted by Ivan Trembow at 11:51 PM

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